By HonestDiscussioner

Religion, Philosophy, Politics, and anything else I'd like to talk about


Wednesday, January 9, 2013

Thunderf00t & "Feminism"

So, a review of TF's video, wherein I breakdown where I agree and disagree with him.

Agree: It's probably not a good idea to strictly moderate your channel or any forum. My personal rules is that banning\deletion of comments only comes when breaking the law, or spamming content not related to the discussion. Based on that metric, I have a total of zero people banned, and only one comment deleted (unless you count the blog, where I've had to delete dozens of spam comments). So yes, if someone threatens rape that's certainly a good reason to ban them. It is also my personal opinion that offensive speech should not be censored, lest the listing of what is offensive grows ever larger to the point where valid opinions are silenced. I am also not a very big fan of Atheism+ for similar reasons.

Disagree: While Youtube is a public forum, comparing it to a public park is non-sense. If you wanted the analogy to hold, Youtube is a public park where you are allowed to stake out your own little corner in which you are in charge and responsible for what goes on. While I ask people to *not* moderate their channel, I believe they have the right to do so, the same goes for conferences.

Further disagreement: The idea that a harassment policy is unnecessary because it is already covered under the law is . . . well I wouldn't call it "ludicrous" but certainly false. It is false for two reasons, best as I can tell. The first is that the law can only be applied when there is a large level of evidence. What if an individual is threatening women, or anyone really, in ways that cannot be confirmed? It's clear to everyone around that he is harassing people, but they couldn't prove it in the court of law. Establishing rules of conduct for such things gives the ones in charge of the convention a level of leeway to decide when a person is being disruptive. Will this ever be necessary? Perhaps not, but it does set precedent that I think is helpful. The second way in which TF's argument is false, is when the "I'm joking" excuse it being used. Some people may in reality only attempting some innocent fun or chiding, but for such topics that would in fact be unacceptable and placing rules against those types of statements is therefore understandable.

Still Further Disagreement: I don't think this whole thing was generated entirely be one single incident, here "ElevatorGate". My own thoughts on that matter are many and nuanced, but that's not really under the purview of this discussion. What's important is that in such a large group, it is unlikely that this is the only instance of men stepping over some sexual bounds or making women feel uncomfortable. To say that you are aware of every last instance and there is only one would require you to claim some sort of supernatural god-like status or make you guilty of several illegal wiretapping offenses.

So, there you have it.

Due to a problem with my blog theme, my recommended pages disappeared. Please go check out The Humble Empiricist, as her most recent entry from January 1st, 2013 is quite excellent.


  1. I appreciate the honesty with which you represent your take on this disagreement. I wish the main women making this charge would take the time to rationally present their argument (with actual cases) on Youtube.

    I don't necessarily agree with alot of Phil Mason's posts, but I do believe he's sincerely right in originally arguing on FtB last year that these charges are exaggerated--and therefore probably unnecessary. He goes wrong though when he brings up the "bar across the street" argument, because he surely knows no such "anti sexual harrassment" code would cover behavior there.